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Honest Questions for LDS!

Posted by Scott on March 27, 2008

I have just run across these different ideas, rituals, stories and such as I have been studying on the LDS Church.  Now, admittedly I can hear all kinds of answers from non-LDS members and some former LDS members, but I do not know if they are correct.  Everyone has an opinion and some make a great case, but I want to hear from LDS members and what you think about these things.  I mean they are a part of LDS, so you must have an opinion or understanding on them.  Please, answer honestly and I will post what you answer.  If a further question arises from your answers I will post in another posting, but questions may not come up. 

Here are several questions to things I just do not understand:

1. Why does the Mormon church use Satanic symbols on the Temples?  The pentagram (satanic goat head) for instance is across the top of the Temple in Illinois 6 times?  Then you have the Sun God Baal underneath it 6 times and then towards the bottom is the moon god 6 times.  What is that all about?

2. Where did the planet Kolob come from in LDS?  I have read and watched documentaries on this and what is that all about?  God and other gods coming from a planet Kolob where a counsel once met to determine which one of God’s sons would be the redeemer and Jesus was chosen which made Lucifer mad and he talked a 1/3 of the angels to go with him or their skin turned black as a curse.  I don’t know that this is the belief across the board, but I have seen it in a few video presentations and also read a couple of articles that described it similiarly.  It tells us in John that Jesus was God’s one and only Son, so I am not sure where Lucifer comes in as being Jesus brother.  I have always heard this, but could not reconcile it.  I was just wondering what this is all about.

3. What was the stone for that Joseph Smith wore around his neck and Brigham Young wore one as well…so hhas been  reported.  I cannot remember what it was called….something like a Jupiter Stone or something like that.  The stones have been said to have occultic symbols on them of course I have never seen one or heard of one to know. 

4. I have heard two different accounts of this and I have read two different accounts.  One says that 13 witnesses actually testified to seeing the Golden Plates with their owns eyes.  Then the other account is that these 13 testified they only saw the Golden Plates spiritually..through spiritual eyes, but not physically…only Joseph Smith saw the actual Golden Plates with his own eyes.  I was just curious as to which one seems to be the actual doctrine of LDS on this.  I do not have an opinion on it…but when you hear or read two differing accounts one gets curious as to which it is.

5.  I read yesterday about the Kinbrook Plates.  These were bell shaped plates that were golden.  A group of men reportedly unearthed these plates that were stamped with symbols on them and took them to Joseph Smith.  It was told that Joseph begin to interpret these plates and symbols and when half way through found out that the plates were a hoax by these men and that the symbols meant nothing.  Do you have further information on this?  I only heard and read briefly on this, but wondered if anyone has actually seen any transcript as to what Joseph Smith was writing down as that the symbols meant?  The folks doing the documentary may not have known the truth about this either.  I was shocked to even hear about them as I had never heard about them until I was reading online about golden plates and then found a video that was talking about them as well.  Curious to know what else is known about them.

Remember, I am simply curious to know answers to these questions.  I get alot of questions about different things like this and I also want to be able to set people straight when they are misquoting as well.  If anyone can speak on some or all of these questions that would great.  If you simply do not have an answer that is understandable as well.

thanks,

Scott

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3 Responses to “Honest Questions for LDS!”

  1. […] Can Any Mormon or LDS Member Answer A Few Questions? Christian Comments Welcome! Posted by Scott Baileyhave never found anyone within the Mormon faith that can answer these few simple questions which all raise other questions, so I pose these here to see if someone within the Mormon faith can answer them for me and everyone else…we really would like to know the answers.  For other great discussion questions go here: […]

  2. Sure, I’ll give it a go.

    1. The symbols on our temples are not satanic. It is only modern commentators who have interpreted them as satanic. The pentagram, for example, was developed into the “satanic goat head” in the mid-nineteenth century by Eliphas Levi, a former Roman Catholic priest who was obsessed with occultism. Prior to that, the symbol was a common symbol of Hebrews and early Christians, and was used to represent the five senses, the five wounds of Christ, health, and even the heavens (imagine that). It was the preferred emblem to adorn the jewelry and amulets of early Christians. The symbol was even used as the city seal of Jerusalem for a time.

    The other symbols, such as the sun and moon, are representative of the cosmos and heavens, something which is represented in many other ancient temples around the world.

    Symbols mean can mean lots of things to lots of different people. To us, they remind us of the Savior, Jesus Christ, and godly things.

    *THIS IS WHAT I HAVE FOUND. IT JUST SEEMS TO ME THAT EVEN THOUGH LDS MAY HAVE MEANT IT FOR GOOD, THE REST OF THE WORLD SEES IT AS SATANIC. I DO NOT THINK OUR HEAVENLY FATHER WOULD MIND IF IT WAS REMOVED FROM A TEMPLES THAT ARE TO GLORIFY HIM. THESE ARE SIMPLY SYMBOLS WITH LITTLE TO NO REAL MEANING IN AND OF THEMSELVES…IT SHOULD BE WHAT IS IN THE HEARTS OF THE PEOPLE THAT ATTEND THE CHURCH. THE REMINDERS FOR US IS FOUND IN SCRIPTURE BY READING DAILY FROM THE BIBLE IN ORDER TO RECEIVE THE REMINDERS OF OUR SAVIOR. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE. THEY ARE USED AS REMINDERS AND GUIDES TO BRING BACK THE MIND TO CHRIST. LIKE OUR CROSSES THAT ARE IN THE CHURCHES THAT IS SUPPOSE TO HELP REMIND OF CHRIST SCRIFICE ON THE CROSS. I WOULD THINK THE INVERTED PENTAGRAM WOULD BE A DISTRACTION RATHER THAN A GLORIOUS REMINDER…IT WOULD BE TO ME ANYWAY.

    *IN REFERENCE TO THE PENTAGRAM STAR…I HAVE SEEN OTHER STAR SYMBOLS THAT ARE NOT LIKE THE “GOATS HEAD” THAT SUPPOSEDLY MEAN THE SAME THING, SO WHY NOT REPLACE THE PENTAGRAM WITH THE OTHER STAR OR CHANGE THE SHAPE IN SUCH A WAY THAT DOES NOT LOOK SO MUCH LIKE A SATANIC STAR. THAT WOULD BE MY SUGGESTION ON THAT. I BELIEVE SCRIPTURE TELLS US TO FLEE EVEN THE APPEARENCE OF BEING EVIL…WE ARE NOT EVEN LOOK LIKE EVIL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT INTENDING IT THAT WAY. THAT IS JUST MY OBSERVATION OF THIS.

    *I HAD NEVER HEARD OF THAT PARTICULAR INVERTED PENTAGRAM USED IN CHRISTIANITY, BUT I WILL DO FURTHER RESEARCH ON THAT. THANKS FOR YOUR IMPUT ON THIS. SCOTT

    2. Kolob is mentioned in the Book of Abraham chapters 3 and 5. According to this revelation, Kolob is the planet/sphere that resides nearest to the throne of God. That is all we know about Kolob.

    *THIS IS ABOUT AS MUCH AS I HAVE EVER FOUND ON IT…IF I FIND MORE I WILL POST IT ON HERE. THANKS.

    There was a council held in heaven before the creation of this earth. This council in heaven included a discussion of who would be the Savior. Both Christ and Lucifer offered, upon drastically different terms (Isa. 6:8; Isa. 14:12-14). That is when Lucifer fell and became Satan (Isa. 14:12). 1/3 of the spirits of God followed after Satan (Rev. 12:3-13). We don’t believe these 1/3 had their skin turned black as a curse.

    *OK, NOW ISAIAH 6:8 IS REFERRING TO COMMISSIONING OF ISAIAH. GOD WAS IN COUNSEL WITH GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON (JESUS), AND GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT…ALL THREE BEINGS AS ONE GOD. ISAIAH HEARD THEM SPEAKING AND SAID “HERE AM I! SEND ME!”. THIS IS NOT A REFERENCE TO LUCIFER OR SATAN AT ALL. ISAIAH 14:12-14 IS DESCRIBING THE FALL OF LUCIFER OR SATAN FROM HEAVEN AND 1/3 OF THE HEAVENLY HOST. THE REASON FOR SATANS FALL WAS THAT HE WANTED TO BE ABOVE GOD AND RULE THE UNIVERSE WITH HIS THRONE ABOVE GOD’S. LUCIFER MENTIONS IN VERSE 14 THAT “I WILL ASCEND HIGH ABOVE THE TOPS OF THE CLOUDS.” REFER TO IS 19:1 & EXODUS 16:10. THERE WAS NO ACCOUNT IN THE BIBLE OF THE QUESTION OF WHO TO SEND TO EARTH BETWEEN JESUS AND LUCIFER…THIS WAS BEING DISCUSSED BETWEEN THE HOLY TRINITY AND FOR ISAIAH’S PURPOSE. IT WAS HIS TIME TO BE A WITNESS TO ISRAEL. THANKS FOR YOUR THOUGHTS THOUGH. SCOTT

    We are all children of God, and sons of the highest (Ps. 82:6; Rom. 8:17; Heb. 12:9; Acts 17:29). That includes every son and daughter of God, Jesus and Lucifer also. Albeit, Jesus is the Savior and Redeemer of mankind. Lucifer has become Satan, the father of all lies, who attempts to overthrow God’s work and leads men carefully down to hell.

    *I HAVE SOME TROUBLE WITH CALLING LUCIFER A SON OF GOD. HE WAS A CREATED ANGEL JUST LIKE MICHAEL, SERAPHIM, CHERUBS, AND OTHER ANGELS. HOWEVER, LUCIFER SINNED AS DESCRIBED IN ISAIAH 14:12-14. GOD WOULD NOT ALLOW LUCIFER THE CHANCE TO OVER-THROW HIM. AS I TRULY BELIEVE OUR GOD IS SOVEREIGN OVER ALL THINGS. IF LUCIFER HAD BEEN HIS SON, HE WOULD NOT HAVE REBELLED AND BEEN THROWN OUT OF HEAVEN…MY GOD IS FAR BIGGER THAN THAT. GOD HAD NO DAUGHTERS EITHER THAT I AM AWARE OF…AT LEAST THE BIBLE DOES NOT SPEAK OF IT…THE HOLY BIBLE IS MY AUTHORITY AND NONE OTHER. AGAIN THANKS FOR YOUR VIEW ON THIS…ALTHOUGH I DO NOT AGREE I DO APPRECIATE YOU MAKING YOUR POINT KNOWN.

    *PSALM 82 IS REFERRING TO THE UNJUST JUDGES OF THE DAY. THEY WERE TO STAND BEFORE GOD’S JUDGEMENT SEAT FOR INJUSTICE IN THE LAND. VERSE 6-7 THESE JUDGES WHOM GOD PUT IN THEIR PLACES WERE HEARING THE DIVINE VERDICT OF DEATH. THIS IS NOT REFERRING IN ANY WAY TO LUCIFER, THE ACTUAL SON OF GOD OR ANYTHING AS YOU HAVE DESCRIBED ABOVE.

    *ROMANS 8:17 TO PUT BACK INTO CONTEXT IS REFERENCE TO HIGHER LIVING IN CHRIST. THIS IS SPEAKING OF THE TRUE BELIEVERS OBLIGATIONS TO LIVE NOT IN OUR SINFUL NATURE ANY FURTHER. BY ACCEPTING CHRIST AS OUR SAVIOR AND LORD WE ARE NOW ADOPTED BY GOD AS HIS SON OR DAUGHTER…THIS MAKES US A STEP SIBLING OF JESUS. WE CAN AT THAT MOMENT OF SALVATION CALL OUT TO GOD AS “ABBA WHICH MEANS FATHER”. THIS IS A TERRIFIC THING FOR US. WE ARE NOW HEIRS TO ALL THAT GOD HAS…NOT SELFISHLY BECAUSE AS CHRIST LIVES WITHIN US NOW, WE WANT WHAT GOD WANTS NOT WHAT WE WANT OR THAT IS SUPPOSE TO BE OUR LIFE. WE FAIL IN THIS AT TIMES. IN REFERENCE TO VERSE 17 IF WE ARE NOW CHILDREN OF GOD BY OUR ACCEPTENCE OF JESUS CHRIST AS LORD OF OUR LIFE, WE ARE CO-HEIRS WITH CHRIST…SO, FROM THAT POINT ON WE WILL ALSO SHARE IN CHRIST SUFFERINGS AS WELL AND ULTIMATELY SHARE IN HIS GLORY IN HEAVEN.

    *HEBREW 12:9 IS CONCERNING OUR DISCIPLINED LIVES TO LIVE FOR GOD RIGHTLY. WE ARE AS BELIEVERS IN CHRIST TO SUBMIT OURSELVES TOTALLY TO HIM IN SPIRIT AND LIVE FOR HIM. TO TAKE IT FURTHER IN VERSE 10 GOD DISCIPLINES HIS CHILDREN FOR OUR GOOD SO THAT WE GLORIFY HIM AND SO THAT WE LEARN HOW TO SHARE IN HIS HOLINESS. GOD WANTS A HOLY REMNANT NOT A SIN-STAINED ONE.

    *ACTS 17:29 THIS IN PARTICULAR IS PAUL REFERRING TO US AS GOD’S OFF-SPRING BECAUSE GOD IS THE CREATOR OF ALL THINGS. I DO NOT SEE IN CONNECTION TO WHAT YOU HAVE REFERENCED ABOVE.

    *ANOTHER GREAT REFERENCE FOR GOD AS CREATOR OF THE ANGELS IS PSALM 148 2-5
    “Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
    Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
    Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
    Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.”
    AS STATED HERE GOD IS THE CREATOR OF ALL ANGELS AND HEAVENLY HOST…ANGELS ARE NOT THE SAME AS MEN OR WOMEN…THEY SERVE A DIFFERENT FUNCTION IN GOD’S KINGDOM THAN WE DO. LUCIFER WAS SUCH A CREATION UNLIKE CHRIST. LUCIFER HAS NEVER BEEN NEAR THE SAME LEVEL AS JESUS CHRIST….CHRIST WAS THERE IN THE BEGINNING. WE DO NOT KNOW WHEN LUCIFER WAS CREATED, BUT HIS PURPOSE WAS SIMPLY TO WORSHIP GOD AND DO THE WORK HE APPOINTED LUCIFER TO DO, HOWEVER, LUCIFER GOT GREEDY AND IT COST HIM HIS ETERNITY IN HEAVEN WORSHIPPING GOD.
    THANKS, SCOTT

    3. Joseph Smith, as a prophet, owned several seer stones. A seer is like a prophet – one who can “see.” Think of the Urim and Thummim in the Bible, and the stones inset in it (Ex. 28:30; Num. 27:21; Deut. 33:8; Ezra 2:63). Same concept.

    *THIS IS AN AREA I HAVE NO CLUE ON. I HAVE HEARD THE STONE CALLED A JUPITER STONE AS WELL WHICH HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE MASONS AND ASTROLOGY OR STAR WORSHIP. AGAIN, I HAVE SEEN PICTURES, BUT WAS NOT THERE TO ASK HIM IN PERSON WHY HE AND BRIGHAM YOUNG WORE THAT PARTICULAR STONE. DO YOUR PROPHETS WEAR STONES LIKE THIS NOW? I HAVE NOT SEEN IT REFERENCED BEYOND JS & BY.

    4. All 11 witnesses saw, handled, and hefted the plates, per their own accounts:
    http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/thrwtnss
    http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/eghtwtns

    Several others also testified to seeing the plates, and all described them very similarly.

    *I HAVE FOUND REFERENCES ABOUT EQUALLY TO THE WITNESSES SAID THEY ONLY SAW THE PLATES UNDER A SHEET OR CLOTHE IN THE SPIRITUAL VISION AND I HAVE FOUND REFERENCE TO THE WITNESSES ACTUALLY HANDLING AND SEEING THESE PLATES. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE ON THIS. I CERTAINLY WAS NOT THERE, SO I DO NOT KNOW. THANKS FOR YOUR REFERENCES ON THIS. SCOTT

    5. The kinderhook plates were a hoax, and Joseph did not make any translation. No evidence exists that he manifested any further interest in the plates after early examination of them.

    *I HAD WATCHED A DOCUMENTARY ABOUT THE KINDERBROOK PLATES AND THIS WAS THEIR CLAIM BY THE WITNESSES AND MAKERS OF THESE PLATES THAT HE HAD STARTED TRANSLATING THEM. AGAIN, THIS WAS TOTAL HEAR-SAY ON MY PART, SO YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER THAN I ON THAT ONE.

    I hope this was helpful. Let me know if you have any questions. *I MAY HAVE A FEW OTHER QUESTIONS THAT I WILL ASK EITHER IN ANOTHER POST OR IN SEPARATE COMMENTS ON THIS PAGE. THANKS FOR RESPONDING BRYCE…GOOD TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU. SCOTT

  3. Chris said

    I APPRECIATE YOU STOPPING BY CHRIS. IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO ANSWER EACH QUESTION UNLESS YOU WANT TO KNOCK YOURSELF OUT DOING SO. THIS BLOG HAS MOVED ON FROM THAT SERIES. MY CONCLUSIONS ABOUT EVERYTHING IS WHAT I BELIEVE THE HOLY BIBLE TO TEACH AND SPEAK OF AND HAVE NO REASON FOR ANOTHER BOOK IN ADDITION TO THE SCRIPTURE. SO, AS WE CONTINUE TO MOVE ON, YOU ARE FREE TO ANSWER WHAT YOU WISH ON HERE. THANKS FOR STOPPING BY.

    IN JESUS CHRIST MY LORD,
    SCOTT

    I was just browsing around the Internet and happened to stumble across your question above. I feel that the person above answered the question well. While it probably does not mean anything, I just figured you might want to know that I have done quite a bit of research into several of the history-related subjects above and have found that many many people have actually made-up stuff about the events in the early days of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have found that the LDS accounts of the past tended to be more objective and acurate than non-LDS accounts of the same.

    The only real way to come to an absolute conclusion (especially about the teachings mentioned) is to ask the ultimately objective individual, our Heavenly Father Himself. In the LDS Book of Mormon, the prophet who compiled the record back in the AD 400s encourages everyone who reads the book that “when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.”

    That is true. Just do a brief study of the Holy Ghost (aka Holy Spirit, Spirit of God, et cetera ad infinitum) in the Bible (and, if you feel right about it, the Book of Mormon) and see how He comunicates with men and what men must do to be communicated to, and then read, study, ponder, and pray about the Book of Mormon and an answer will come.

    Those are my two…or twenty-two cents. :o) Hopefully they are of some benefit to you! Have a good one…

    oh…PS – If you want, I will go through and answer all the questions for you in my own way – but it has been so long since they were asked that I figured you might not wants that.

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